Curse

Truegen · Oct 23, 2009, 06:24 AM // 06:24

I tend to RA/HA a lot, and one thing I've been noticing is how efficient a stack of 3-4 hexes on a melee target can be...especially considering that your average monk only carries Holy Veil and usually has to use it on themselves for VoR, Backfire, etc.

Lately though, in RA it's getting a bit recockulous it seems. Any and all Mesmers and Necros are carrying Empathy and Insidious Parasite because they're basically set-it-and-forget-it massive damage hexes that can't be pulled off unless your monk is clear and free (not usually the case) and are easily renewable because of their duration and recharge.

It's time to start reworking some hexes, anet....ya'll have been pretty lazy about them and it's time to throw a few updates their way. Allow me to get the ball rolling (adjustments are made in bold):

Empathy: 10e / 2c / 15rc
(Old)
Full - For 5...13 seconds, whenever target foe attacks, that foe takes 10...46 damage.
(New)
Full - For 1...8 seconds, whenever target foe hits with an attack skill, that foe takes 5...20 damage

Insidious Parasite: 10e / 2c / 15rc
(Old)
Full - For 5...13 seconds, whenever target foe hits with an attack, you steal up to 15...39 Health from that foe.
(New)
Full - For 1...8 seconds, whenever target foe hits with an attack, you steal up to 5...15 Health from that foe.

Faintheartedness: 15e / 2c / 15rc
(Old)
Full - For the next 3...20 seconds, target foe attacks 50% slower, and that foe suffers -0...2 Health degeneration
(New)
Full - For the next 1...10 seconds, target foe attacks 25% slower, and takes 5...20 damage whenever that for misses with an attack skill

The way these old hexes were, empathy could single-handedly shut down a primal/frenzy war or any melee assassin, and insidious would do the exact same thing empathy did while healing the necro for almost the same amount of damage you dish him on attacks. As for faintheartedness...lets be honest, 50% slower attack speed and -3 degen for like 20+ seconds? gooooooooood jokeeeeeeee

ruemere · Oct 23, 2009, 07:53 AM // 07:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truegen

I tend to RA/HA a lot[...]

Vampiric. Secondary profession. Scythe or Hammer instead of Daggers. IAS.

Try to think outside the box.

Regards,
Ruemere

Tenebrae · Oct 23, 2009, 08:06 AM // 08:06

Those places are Hexes House , thats it. Thats why interrupting works so well in pvp , you should try it . I agree thou in Faintheartedness ..... if max IAS is 33% i find bit unfair that 50% att speed red .... 25% is fine .

jonnieboi05 · Oct 23, 2009, 10:55 AM // 10:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

Those places are Hexes House , thats it. Thats why interrupting works so well in pvp , you should try it . I agree thou in Faintheartedness ..... if max IAS is 33% i find bit unfair that 50% att speed red .... 25% is fine.

I agree with this.

~LeNa~

Gift3d · Oct 23, 2009, 12:38 PM // 12:38

i just think it's a bit ridiculous how 3 skills can make a melee player completely useless. Insidious, SS, parasitic bond. You're a sitting duck for 14 seconds unless you decide to nearly kill yourself, meanwhile the necro goes off spamming his other 3 skills.

Blind is effectively the most useful in shutting down melee, but isn't OP because the duration of it is usually not long, can be reduced, and condition removal skills are easily available for a few different professions.

Hexes however, generally have a much longer duration, cannot be reduced (cause who uses that warrior insignia with -armor, seriously) and are difficult to remove, especially if they're covered, because hex removal skills aren't nearly as effective as condition removal skills.

In 8v8 these aren't as much of a problem because you have two monks with hex removal, and sometimes a midline with hex support. In RA though, it's just ridiculous. I'd absolutely agree with toning down of anti-melee hexes. With how many snares, hexes, conditions, and blocking skills there are it just gets to be way too much.

Martin Alvito · Oct 23, 2009, 03:36 PM // 15:36

Look, these hexes are OP because of their duration. If Insidious were 5/1/12 with a 5 second duration, it stops spikes cold and mitigates pressure without breaking 4v4. As it is, you can completely cripple melee characters with a single skill on the bar, than generate credible threats that absorb the other side's hex rip and still generate damage.

If your goal is to farm glad points, playing melee in RA is just dumb with the way hexes are presently set up. Self-rip isn't an option, because doing so requires you to stop moving, exposing you to kiting.

IronSheik · Oct 23, 2009, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Sorry, i find these skills relatively balanced. Interrupts, KDs. All you need to stop these skills, all which a melee has.

Saying you need to nerf these, I counter with saying nerf eviscerate, primal rage, and all unconditional hammer knockdowns, because they make you be on the floor for 7 seconds.

Empathy is to your melee as my Dev hammer Is to your empathy

See what I did thar?

HawkofStorms · Oct 23, 2009, 04:10 PM // 16:10

These hexes are good due to cover hexes and the limited nature of hex removal skills. But I mean... should I start posting backfire and VoR and complain about how anti-caster hexes are too OP?

The game has worked fine as is for years. You gotta get used to working with a team. Shutting you down is fine. If you have a good monk/interrupter, you'll be fine.

Truegen · Oct 23, 2009, 06:51 PM // 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

These hexes are good due to cover hexes and the limited nature of hex removal skills. But I mean... should I start posting backfire and VoR and complain about how anti-caster hexes are too OP?

The game has worked fine as is for years. You gotta get used to working with a team. Shutting you down is fine. If you have a good monk/interrupter, you'll be fine.

A few of you guys are missing the point here. Obviously, I know interrupts and kd's blah blah blah are all "effecting stoppers" of hexes (I'd argue it's fairly hard to interrupt VoR/Insidious with hammer bash), but when it comes down to RA mesmers and necros as well as HA hexway teams, they far too easily render a melee useless with a 3-stack hex pile

zelgadissan · Oct 23, 2009, 07:05 PM // 19:05

Before I say anything, let me say that I agree with Gift3d in that in a 8v8 setting - which is what the game should really be balanced around - these really aren't that much of an issue. Now then - there's a big difference between most anti-caster hexes and anti-melee hexes, and Martin hit it - the melee hexes last longer than their recharge at any decent spec, they're relatively strong, and they're non-elite. For caster hexes, there are some that do last longer than recharge, but those are often both elite and rare (Stolen Speed, Migraine, Depravity). Elite is the big one.

Examples:
Empathy at 14 - 14 seconds, 10 recharge
Insidious Parasite at 14 - 14 seconds, 12 recharge
Faintheartedness at 14 - 23 seconds, 8 recharge

Backfire - 10 seconds, 20 recharge
Visions of Regret - 10 seconds, 20 recharge
Guilt/Mistrust/Shame - 6 seconds, 20-30 recharges

As for the actual topic - melee hexes should be strong since melee is so powerful in general. However, I think the current forms are slightly too strong and the suggested ideas are far too weak. Honestly, if the durations and recharges were more respectable - maybe 75% upkeep - I would have no problem with the current damage numbers.

For below: I would be okay with a slight hit on the top end, maybe 5-10 tops. I'd rather just see durations/recharges hit first and then see how they look before altering damage.

Truegen · Oct 23, 2009, 09:06 PM // 21:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelgadissan

As for the actual topic - melee hexes should be strong since melee is so powerful in general. However, I think the current forms are slightly too strong and the suggested ideas are far too weak. Honestly, if the durations and recharges were more respectable - maybe 75% upkeep - I would have no problem with the current damage numbers.

While I agree that my suggestions may make them a bit weak, I just can't agree with you about being OK with the current damage numbers. How can Insidious Parasite be balanced at stealing more life from you than you actually even DEAL to them in damage half the time? Same thing goes for Empathy, although if I had to choose I'm more OK with Empathy because it doesn't actually steal your life and give it to the target

I'd want to see either a duration reduction or increased recharge, as well as getting some of those damage numbers dropped...moreso for Insidious because it's a life-stealer not a damage-dealer (no rhyme intended). Maybe Empathy at ~30 dmg @ 14 Dom and Insidious at ~25 @ 14 Curse

Winterclaw · Oct 23, 2009, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Warriors are great when they have support. However because of the set up, warriors don't always have the support they need. So if you are going in as a melee, you just have to accept the fact it is a gamble and hope your team kills the necro first.

FoxBat · Oct 23, 2009, 10:05 PM // 22:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

Those places are Hexes House , thats it. Thats why interrupting works so well in pvp , you should try it . I agree thou in Faintheartedness ..... if max IAS is 33% i find bit unfair that 50% att speed red .... 25% is fine .

Max IAS is 33% attack speed reduction, meaning 50% faster. Frenzy and Faint perfectly negate each other to standard attack speed.

IronSheik · Oct 23, 2009, 10:27 PM // 22:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

Max IAS is 33% attack speed reduction, meaning 50% faster. Frenzy and Faint perfectly negate each other to standard attack speed.

If I'm not mistaken...IAS 33% is just that, you attack 33% faster, but you actually hit 50% more.

Faintless isn't you hit 50% less, it's you attack 50% slower

So no, flail and faintless do not negate each other, flail gives you 33% ias, faintless 50% Das, so 17% DAS in total. I do not know if these percents are multiplicitive or not, so total das varies, but it is a das.

mistokibbles · Oct 23, 2009, 11:46 PM // 23:46

ra is full of scrubs anyway, so who cares. and you have monks in ha and spotless mind + rupts work wonders

Faer · Oct 24, 2009, 12:14 AM // 00:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truegen

your average monk only carries Holy Veil and usually has to use it on themselves for VoR, Backfire, etc.

Stop playing with average Monks then, if their inability to pre-veil themselves and work with 3 pips is keeping you from winning. Hexes in 8v8 are actually tolerable right now. In 4v4 they can be a little stupid, when paired with Wounding Strike (lol, yesterday's Codex meta, gg), but balancing around 4v4 is kind of ehhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Don't get me wrong, I'd love more free HONOR in Codex, but I don't think there's any reason to damage 8v8 for the sake of 4v4 or average players not knowing how to clean melee off.

I would not, however, have any problems with Shadow of Fear being removed from the game entirely.